Lutz Möller 12,7 mm Geschoß 1273; 67 mm lang; 52 g schwer; BC 1,259
für 138,4 mm lange .50"BMG;
91 cm Lauf, 381 mm Drall, Zünder RWS; GEE 200 m; 233 ± 5 cm Reichweite
in 19,5 ml Hülse
|Hogdon 50 BMG||15,06||100||3.986||692||97,68||827||Achtung!|
|Flugbahn und Leistungen|
|bis 1000 m|
Siehe auch hier Longshot 2011!
I would like to inform you that I have won the
• World Champion .50 BMG Hunter class (1000 yard, rifle 50 BMG, prone from bipod)
I also won:
• 1st International shooter plaque
• World Championship Hunter class smallest group ( 7.5 inches – 5 shot at 1000 yards)
• 3rd place World Championship Hunter class group aggregate
• 4th place in de Semiauto matches with a factory Barrett M107A1
The rifle used was a factory sponsored Steyr HS50.
Thank you , Eduardo
Eduardo Abril de Fontcuberta
P.O.Box 2605, Mesquite, 89024 Nevada, USA
P.O.Box 281, Torrelodones, 28250, Madrid, Spain
Donnerstag, 7. Juli 2011 01:03
well, done. I send You my proud Congratulations. Please send Pictures
13,2 mm Mauser Panzerbüchsenpatronen eines griechischen Herstellers vor dem Krieg, Vorläufer der .50" BMG
Mauser 1918 TuF Gewehr
.50 BMG Hülsen mit Eidechse in Afghanistan
Um Detonationen TNT-passivierter Pulver zu vermeiden, soll 95% Füllung nie unterschritten werden!
Geschosse kann in 381 mm langem Drall mit 6,1° Drallwinkel verschossen werden.
I can send you Primers RWS for the calibre .50 BMG
Price: 200 pcs 77,35 EUR (include tax 19%)
1000 pcs 362,51 EUR (include tax 19%)
Packing / Shipping to Norway 35,- EUR
QV, 7. Januar 2009
In der Schaumstoffverpackung vereint
Lutz Möller 12,7 mm Geschoß 1273
Drei Lutz Möller 12,7 mm Geschosse 1273 in Reihe
Drei Lutz Möller 12,7 mm Geschosse 1273 als Aquarell
Die .50 BMG im Vergleich - schon groß!
Vielen dank für die Cal. .50" Sendung. Ich bin vollstens zufrieden.
MfG! Christian Sorg, Donnerstag, 8. November 2007 18:11
da freut mich sehr. Sende bitte in paar schöne Bilder der geladen .50" BMG - Patronen und ggf. auch der Waffe.
Fascinating site! It has been a pleasure browsing your site and learning from all the posts. Wanted to ask you specifically about your thoughts on a .50 BMG bullet design. I haven't seen anything comparable to your LM-105 for this caliber. I am in the process of building one of these rifles and your website has been quite the eye opener. The high ballistic coefficients, the book on Rifle Accuracy Facts, and the progressive gain rifling to name a few. All of these facts have caused me to rethink my rifle design!
Do you make a .50 BMG version of your LM-105?
LM: Not Yet.
If so, what would the twist rate have to be to accommodate such a bullet design?
LM: Nine Degrees, or one Turn in 254 mm or 10 Inches, but beware: The overall Cartridge length will grow with en elongated Bullet too.
On Further, what type of reamer design would you recommend for cutting the chamber? (I've been talking with a few folks about a bore-rider design vs. a standard chamber.)
LM: I have to draw Bullet and Chamber together, to answer the
Question precisely. Modifications may be neccessary in the Leade and Throat.
If you don't currently make a .50 BMG bullet would you?
LM: I do make .50 BMG Bullets for 13 Inches Twist length, look at the Pictures above.
Can you give me a ballpark figure on pricing as well?
LM: Yes, off the Web.
Thanks again for your time and thought provoking website!
Best Regards, Jay Wright Florida, USA, Freitag, 23. November 2007 05:44
I have received the 50BMG case and I will load the dummy today. To which address do you want me to send it? I have also received the bullets. They sure look good.
Regards, Carsten Østergaard, Dienstag, 15. April 2008 12:32
|Pressure [bar]||Burn rate
|Hogdon 50 BMG||15,00||98,0||4.360||791||99,58||759||Achtung!|
|Wind drift [cm]||0||0||0||0,6||1,6||3,0||6,8|
|to 1200 m|
|Wind drift [cm]||0||1,6||9,2||22||41||63||80|
Lothar Walther makes .50" BMG Kurzdrall (Short Twist) Barrel, 42 mm Ø, 915 mm long with 241 mm Twist length = 9,58° Twist angle, rather steep, with 8 Lands and Groves. Lands Measure 12,69 + 0,03 mm and Groves 12,92 mm +0,03. use that.
LM-150 Round Tails
Drunk for Length
Lutz Moeller, 1st May 2008
12,7 mm Exhaust
12,7 mm Exhaust
The raw Barrel weighs about 8,9 kg. As with 15 g Propellant and 64,8 g Bullet mass, the Gas dynamic brake effect can only be minor, one has to resort to a heavy Barrel and Rifle. Just 23 % Powder Mass cannot brake 100% Bullet Mass effectively, no Matter how well designed the Brake is (and mine is!). The .50" BMG Catridge is an annoying Monster, that needs some Taming, to become a pleasant Toy for Weekends on the Range or other Purposes. Let Lothar Walther add the integrated .50 hdp-Brake, or if for Simplicity, You buy a Blank ex Stock, let Your Machine shop drill first the Brake Holes, then ream the 13,5 mm for 80 mm, and then on the Outside add a 30 mm Thread, or something else You like (maybe an Inch whatever Thread, if You dare). Cover the Barrel with a Tube some 100 mm or 4 Inch (10,16 mm) and depending on Material (Steel, Aluminium, Carbon Fibre) some 2 - 3 mm thick.
Fancy Stuff: Carbon Fiber and Aluminum
Close the Tube in the Front with a Plate with the Thread, to attach it firmly. A light Carbon fiber enclosure is a good Ideas, as it easily moves with Barrel vibration and the Thread will not rattle on these low Mass forces. Metal is heavier, but sturdier. not Not to burn away, Carbon fiber enclosures need around the Brake internally a Metal shield.
The Brake enclosures Back cannot be attached with a Thread to allow thermal expansion. So the Back plate must be decoupled with a Plastic bushing (Polyamide, Nylon POM, or alike). Why all that? The 15 g Powder are more than a normal Shooter can stand. Any effective gas dynamic Brake aggravates Blast and Nose. To still use the Brakes Recoil reduction, though not too important compared to Rifle weight, I encapsulate the Brake in this hollow Sleeve. The Encapsulated Volume (the bigger the better) allows the Gases to leave the Barrel through the hdp-muzzle brake, but bar any Pressure Waves toward the Shooter. Voilá, there You have it: A pleasant Brake, unheard off Yet. The voluminous encapsulated gas dynamic Brake will eat (some) Recoil, Flash, and bar the Excessive Noise, the Brake usually generates, to reach the Shooters Ear. Carbon Fiber stuff is expensive, I know, but currently the best Solution to the Problem. Aluminum and Steal, if carefully dimensioned, work too. Grate Care has to be undertaken to fasten Front and Back, so they cannot rattle under great Forces normal to the Barrel but still move along the Barrel under thermal Expansion.
Any good Action can be used to build a .50 BMG with this Barrel an Bullet. The Stock must provide enough Room for the big voluminous Brake Encapsulation, tat I freely dub "Sleeved Brake", as it sleeves the Brake fully and the Barrel partly. The Rifle will look rather awkward, when upright like an Oven chimney. Let You fellow Shooters an the Range smile or laugh. Remember: The one, who smile last, smiles best. This exactly will happen, when You command Your braked and sleeved Barrel "Not-so-Loudenboomer". If heavy enough, You will be able to shoot the Rifle will Trust and after a While even with Pleasure and only then with Success. The sleeved Brake encapsulates the normally annoying Blast front, kicking You in the Face. Folks without this Feature will most often develop a Headache after 20 Shots and hence cannot practice, as needed to perform well. To moderate a .50 BMG Rifle is in my not so humble Opinion the only Road to Success. Too may Folks, looking for the Big one, cannot handle it well, because they flinch. I cannot blame them. Raw Fifty is tough Stuff. A Fifty with an open Muzzle brake is more most People can handle. Do not be tough, be smart, moderate the Monster in the above outlines Way and You can shoot it without Angst.
Now, why my LM-150 Bullet. Well, the Bullet extends .50 BMG Cartridge from the usual 138+something mm OAL to 150 mm OAL. So forget Rifles with a Magazine. They will not hold this Cartridge. No why the Stretched-Limousine-Type-Bullet? Besides some built in Features, I would not like to reveal in the Public, long slender Bullets buck the Wind much better, than the short Fatties. Pressed or forged Bullets cannot be that long. Turned ones can. If one knows, how to optimize a Bullet for the intended Flight (Speed, Range), CNC can work Wonder. Software too. So can I. Have a Look:
LM-150 750 m/s dynamic Pressure, contour
LM-150 750 m/s dynamic Pressure, iso
LM-150 750 m/s Velocity, contour
LM-150 750 m/s Velocity, iso
This LM-150 Bullet, with a BC of 2 above 800 m/s Velocity, that we unfortunately will not reach with the .50 BMG, and BC 1,74 between 400 and 800 m/s, the Speed regime, we encounter from a .50 BMG on Distances further than 2 km, will more than half Your Wind drift compare to very good other .50 etwa Bullets. In adverse Condition like gusty Wind an Rain or Snow, with the sleeved Brake in a heavy Rifle, the LM-150 offers You the Potential to outshoot anyone else by wide Margin. to compare the Margin, compare the Wind drift figures, states for 4 m/s Crosswind.
1000 Yard Targets in Diggle
But remember well, a successful Fifty rifle for the rather heavy and recoiling LM-150, requires a heavy Rifle and the sleeved Brake. Only with these Helpers You will have Fun to shoot the Beast an then hit precisely with Ease (provides You aim an hold the Rifle calm an steady towards the Target, while You gently and slowly pull the Trigger until the Shot brakes).
This LM-150, I created for You, is a little Miracle. at these slow Speeds (750 m/s and below) the surrounding Air will not be disturbed more than to speed up to just under 800 m/s. The Air flows around the Bullet with its Drive bands with intended Micro turbulences an recovers Pressure on the Tail rather nicely down to a small Diameter. I don not want to outline all my Design rules her publicly, but be assured, this LM-150 is ne of the nice Bullets I ever made. Credits go to Gerard Schultz for the Ogive Tail and Johan Loubser for the Drive Bands and their (uncovered) Secrets. Some secret Folks, who build grey Airplanes, helped with Theory on Drive band aerodynamics too. Thank You all.
Grey German Airplane (Sorry, no Pilot) in Spain
If You need further Assistance on how to build the Rifle to double Your Chances to hit on long Ranges under adverse Conditions, let me know, and I will help, as much as needed.
Re: LM-150 | 8. Dezember
I will send along the chamber PDF file as soon as I can get one from Dave Kiff.
Thanks again for the help!
Kind Regards, Jay, Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2007 00:12
You see, I put some Effort in this Project to yield adequate Results.
Your attention to detail is noticed and appreciated!
How difficult would it be to mail brass and primers from Germany to USA?
I’m having a devil of a time finding a source on QUALITY 50 BMG brass and primers. All the big boys say that the best brass is the IMI (Israeli Military Industry) and the primer of choice is RWS. The neck on the IMI is supposed to be consistently thick and lends itself well to neck turning and the RWS primer is the most consistent in ignition. RWS hasn’t imported primers to the states in the last two years due to the exchange rate and tariffs imposed. They also say they have no plans in the near future to resume importation. Tracking down IMI brass is an enigma! If it’s not too much trouble, what are your thoughts on the subjects?
Companhia Brasileira de Cartouches (CBC) .50 BMG Box
CBC .50 BMG Cases
CBC Contact Gilberto Salm
LM: A bigger Producer in the World is Companhia Brasileira de Cartouches. Of Course they optimize Volume and Price, like any Military Stuff. CBC bought a German Manufacturer Metallwerke Elisenhütte Nessau (MEN). CBC Brass is available in Gemany. RWS Primers too. But Check with Brasil, whether there is a U.S.A., Distributor. That should be the simplest thing. But if You want such Product to be shipped from Germany Lutz Moeller GmbH may help.
I now can visualize your brake design. The drawings are superb. It now makes sense what you were describing about the “hexagonal” spaces within the brake. I’ve just ordered several new measuring devices that will assist me in cutting the angles in a piece of stock. By the way, silencers or suppressors are illegal in the US. One can own one, but the device must be serialized as well as registered and of course taxed.
LM: OK. Then do just that.
I even think that it must be manufactured by a Class 2 manufacturer as licensed by the ATF (bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms). I’ll look further into the “rules” for silencers and make sure that I’m not breaking any laws here in the states.
LM: It usually pays to think before to act.
Hope this finds you and yours well. Regards, Jay, Montag, 10. Dezember 2007 02:14
I’ll leave the barrel decision in your hands. I can honestly say that I’m simply interested in the accuracy of the finished rifle shooting your bullets. If you deem the groove and land diameters, and depth, and angles, etc. to be better with Mr. Carlson’s barrels, then that is the barrel I’ll go with in the build. I have enough knowledge on the subject to know that there’s a lot I don’t know! Whatever you think will do.
I must have missed the part of a “gas problem” with the bullet tail and brake design. Since it’s been mentioned, which end of the brake as drawn on the website is to be attached to the muzzle? I’m assuming the stepped end is for the final tread which will then attach to the barrel’s muzzle. All the previous brakes that I’ve installed have been of a somewhat constant diameter with a thread on the inside of the brake. Just a little different than what I’ve done.
You’ll have to let me know how your conversation went with Dave Kiff in regards to the reamer designs.
Best Regards, Jay, Mittwoch, 12. Dezember 2007 20:41
Pacific Tool Reamer #472
I discussed the Ramer question with Mr. Dave Kiff. He mentioned most .50 BMG accuracy shooters use Reamers with .511" Lead and Neck sizes from .562" all the Way down to .554". We want to avoid Neck turning, because we center the Cartridge with die first Drive band, but not with the Neck, as Folks with regular Bullets often do and have to do, as Military Brass varies a lot. Look here (metric Tolerances in Millimeter):
Pacific Tool .50 "BMG Reamer Print #472 Tolerances (metric in Millimeter)
The first Drive Band is about 1½ mm from the Lands and a big Cartridge like that should handle that Gap well. The Bullet mus be on the small side to handle the tight 12,98 mm Lead. The Lothar Walther Kurzdrall Barrel has 12,69 + 0,03 mm Land Ø and 12,92 + 0,03 mm Grove Ø . The Bullet has Tolerances as well. To allow a tight fit in the Barrel and under all Tolerances, including thermal Expansion from Shooting, I would like to enlarge the Drive Bands a bit an then must ream up the Lead.
That means, Pacific Tool Reamer Print #472 is for the Bullets ok, but we could do better in Lead and Throat. so a good Idea would be to order such Reamer, but with separate Throat reamer. That is not too uncommon. Let me show You, what I mean.
Custom Throat for Pacific tool Reamer #472 + Lothar Walther Kurzdrall Barrel + LM-150 a tad wider
You should decide, which Reamer or Body Reamer + Throat reamer combination, You would like to use or Order and I tailor the LM-150 accordingly to 12,96 or 12,98 mm Ø. The first standard Solution is simpler, the latter is better. What would You like?
Regards Lutz, 12th December 2007,
As I've never reamed a chamber with a throat reamer. I'm leaning towards the one piece option. This can be made with the throat and lead that would allow the bullet to most optimized right?
LM: Yes, sure.
I called Dave and asked him to look at your Custom throat drawing at the bottom of the page on your site with the associated dimensions. He said, he hadn't looked at it yet and would yesterday afternoon. He should be able to make a single reamer for this bullet that is easy to cut the chamber with little chance of screwing it up and giving the optimal lead and throat based on your website drawing.
Sorry I wasn't able to catch your call earlier.
Thanks, Jay , Donnerstag, 13. Dezember 2007 17:15
Hope you and yours had a wonderful Christmas and New Years!
Just wanted to let you know that I did speak with Dave Kiff over the holidays and placed the order for the 50 BMG chamber reamer that we've been discussing (One Piece Reamer design). I also ordered the different size pilots for the reamer as well.
All we need to do now is get a barrel. You've mentioned a
couple of makers with Walther being the largest. Do you have a preference?
Thanks again for all your time!
Best Regards, Jay, Mittwoch, 2. Januar 2008 03:49
I have no Preference for a Barrel Maker. Lothar Walther just offers the Kurzdrall (250 mm Twist length) for the .50 BMG with 8 Lands and so I use their Land- an Groove specifications. So If You shop somewhere else, remember the Lothar Walther .50 BMG Kurzdrall Barrel has 12,69 + 0,03 mm Land Ø and 12,92 + 0,03 mm Grove Ø. Any other Barrel maker would have to adapt. Remember, military barrels have wider Tolerances and sometime a too tiny Bore for the LM-150, that would ruin the Drive band concept (See Measurements) and shoot Pressure further up, than You would like to tolerate.
All the Best for 2008, Lutz,
You perhaps find that interesting
Regards, Eric, Donnerstag, 17. Januar 2008 19:24
Hallo Herr Möller,
ein klitzekleines Update: wir bekommen hier in der Gegend einen neuen 300 m Schießstand, der bis 17.000 Joule zugelassen ist. Incl. der ganzen Meßtechnik. Der Stand ist vor den Toren der Stadt Ulm. Zusätzlich gibt es Bestrebungen, den Truppenübungsplatz Stetten bei Sigmaringen mitnutzen zu dürfen.
Dies würde zumindest die Anzahl .50" BMG-geeigneter Schießstände im Umkreis von 50 km auf 4 erhöhen. Ich werde die Tage (im März oder April) einmal die Steyr versuchsweise schießen. Nach alldem, was ich gehört habe, soll sie gut beherrschbar sein.
Mit Steyr habe ich inzwischen auch schon über den Tausch des Laufes gegen einen Kurzdralllauf gesprochen. Die wollen das aber nur dann übernehmen, wenn ich mindestens 100 Stück kaufe, aber das ist mir danndoch ein bissi viel.
Bei Lothar Walter hab ich jetzt noch nicht nachgefragt.
LM: Dort sind .50"BMG-250-mm Drall-Läufe üblich!
Halten Sie mich bitte bezüglich des Gewehr 06 auf dem Laufenden ?
LM: Ich hörte gerade heute mehr und mehr Teile würden fertig werden. Es sieht mit dem Fortschritt nach langer Wartezeit nun endlich mal gut aus. Deutsche Mechanik ist auf dem Weltmarkt gefragt und die Werke ausgelastet. Das freut mich einerseits. Andererseits bedeutet das aber auch Wartezeiten, leider!
Wäre es u.U. möglich, ein Muster eines LM-150 bzw. MSG in 50 BMG von Ihnen zu erhalten, wenn Sie einen Schwung anfertigen ? Natürlich gegen Kostenerstattung.
Lieben Gruß, Saskia W., Mittwoch, 30. Januar 2008 22:28
we have done a prototype in .50 BMG in the steel -
aluminium light weight design. They are made to the order only, and a
minimum quantity of 5 pc. is necessary in order to achieve a reasonable
We hope this information helps you. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Sincerely Yours
LOTHAR WALTHER Feinwerkzeugbau GmbH
Dr. Frank Walther, Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:30 AM
Hope this finds you well and the bullet project progressing smoothly. I've had correspondence with Walther in regards to your recommendation on their barrel for this bullet. They (the US business unit of Walther) mentioned that their barrels use "normal steel". I then asked what "normal steel" was and was told that is 4140. As I used to see and use 416R barrels, I wanted to see if there is any appreciable difference in steels and their performance with the LM-150?
Your thoughts are always appreciated.
Regards, Jay, Freitag, 1. Februar 2008 02:48
You exhibit a Chinese way to start a Conversation with some mellow Sweet talk. Thanks, I'm fine and the Bullets are ordered to fabricate. When I designed the LM-105, I didn't even ask Walther about the Steel. The make that stuff since Centuries, o I assumed, they would know, what they do. Apparently the did as Results were fine. If You want to talk about Barrel materials, Noel Carlson would be a better Partner. I give You his Contact details in an Email. The .50" BMG; is a Machine gun cartrigde and as such when Single shot fired demands not too much from the Barrel. so I would not worry too much.
I’ll give him a ring today to discuss. Never been to China, so I’m unfamiliar
with the mellow openings in conversations there. I was raised in the
southeastern US and that is simply known as good “Southern hospitality”. It is
certainly absent in other parts of the US, the northeast in particular.
Thanks again, Jay, Freitag, 1. Februar 2008 14:23
Hallo Herr Möller,
Ihre LM-150-Angebot ist in Ordnung, insbesondere in Anbetracht der Tatsache, daß die Hornady-Geschosse 2,80 € je Stück kosten und ich Ihren Geschossen deutlich mehr als den Hornady-Teilen zutraue.
LM: Dann bin ich wohl zu billig!
2 - 3 Fragen noch -
Wie ist die Geschoßsetztiefe?
LM: 150 mm, wie der Name!
Was für Primer empfehlen Sie (bei Einsatz von Hogdon 50 BMG ?)
Muß ich die Geschosse krempen ?
LM: Schaden, kann's nicht!
Welchen Matrizensatz und welche Presse empfehlen Sie ?
LM: Keine Ahnung!
Paßt Ihnen eine Lieferung bis Mitte Mai ?
LM: Ja - sind schon bestellt, werden kommen.
Lieben Gruß, Saskia W., Donnerstag, 3. April 2008 14:53
I should receive the .50 bullets any day soon. So I have to decide on some load data. I'll use 20N29 powder and your recommended 138,4mm C.O.L. You write on your website that 16,9g. will generate 3679 bars of pressure. When I run this load in Quickload I get very excessive pressure
LM: What is that "very excessive pressure"? Numbers, please!
But this must be due to the fact that a drive-band bullet requires a lot less driving force compared to a normal bullet. Is this a correct assumption?
What kind of initial pressure (Anfangsgasdruck) should I use in Quickload to get more realistic pressure data?
LM: 150 bar!
Do I have to modify the case capacity as well?
LM: You must always adjust the Case capacity to the, real = measured Capacity of
a fired Case from the respective Chamber!
According to VV, 245gr. (15,9g.) is max. load with a conventional solid so I guess this would be a safe starting load with your bullet?
Thanks in advance for the answer and remember to send me a .50" BMG case if you still want me to load a dummy round for you.
LM: Ah, I forgot that, but will do that right away (ah, tomorrow)!
Regards, Carsten Østergaard, Freitag, 11. April 2008 09:25
Reynolds, left, see Sennybridge
Reynolds .50"BMG broad, Click to enlarge
Reynolds .50"BMG angled, Click to enlarge
Reynolds Gun makers from Switzerland, 25th April 2004
well here are my results fired in a PGM Hécate2, LW barrel 700 mm,15" twist, 8 grooves.
Hecate first load 16g 20N29 overall lenght 144 mm v = 750 m/s
Hecate second load 16.90 20N29 v = 795 m/s
I have joined 2 pictures taken at a distance of 545m, almost no wind, holes are right rounds.
First Load, 545 m
Second Load, 545 m
I took several shots at 1308 m, but no impact on a 1m by 1m target, missed slighly around. Most of the shots were fired with the first load. According to my calculations made on Exbal; the real BC seems more around 0.97 in my barrel.
LM: How did You derive this Value? From which Data?
I think i 've got problems stabilizing your bullets, 2 or 3 fliers, but surprisingly the speeds are really consistent, hi-low 5 m/s.
LM: The Velocity spread is very good! You should shoot them faster! See Load and Barrel recommendations above.
6 Shots in 1.308 m in 15 cm Ø
For comparaison i realized during my previous session, a 6 shots group of 15 cm
with 48,6 g AMAX at the same distance.
Fabrice, Montag, 8. September 2008 11:20
Hello, Mr. Moeller,
i have in France a PGM in .50" BMG.
LM: I thought France outlawed the Cartridge for Civilians. Is that Opinion wrong, or out dated?
LM: Don`t You worry about Your own unreplacable Ears? Loud Noise ( < 100 Pa or 137 dB) will damage them!
I have a barrel LOTHAR WALTER Kurzdrall in .50 BMG with twist in 241 mm. I need bullets. How can I do to have your bullets. Can you tell me a price? Please can you answer me?
LM: 12,7 mm MSG Bullets are available ex
Stock. Further Details follow per Email.
Best regards Georges MORALDO, Freitag, 21. November 2008 19:42
Dear Mr. Moraldo,
Canjuers seem interesting. To proof the G-06 with the LM-105 next Year I look for Ranges out to 2 - 3 km. Under which Circumstances would I be allowed to shoot there. Else I will resort to Camels in the West Australian Desert, which have the Advantage to wander around, so each Shot is on a previously unknown Target, that cannot be faked. I intend to hunt those Camels in outrageous long Distances to show the Capabilities of my LM-Class Bullets beyond conventional Conception to raise some Eyebrows with interested Parties in long precise First Shot Kills.
Regards, Lutz Moeller,
Here are some pictures as promised.
before the .50" BMG MSG Shot
during the .50" BMG MSG Shot
after the .50" BMG MSG Shot
Three .50" BMG MSG Shots
LM: Wie ich finde auf die Entfernung mit dem dicken Brummer auf Handybreite recht eng beieinander, langt für Gamsen!
My rifle is a Saxonia Big Valve with a 28" Lothar Walther barrel and an after-market muzzle brake. I will replace the barrel to a 36” soon to gain some more speed. So far, my best load is 250gr. 20N29 (old lot) behind your 12,7 mm MSG lang bullet in IMI brass. Cartridge overall length is 143 mm and v0 is 780 m/s. The load is compressed and powder should be dropped through a drop-tube. According to Quickload v3.3 this load is 4 gr. from max. with a case capacity of 293 gr. water and 150 bars initiation pressure. Care should be taken with older versions of QL as they will show lower pressure and loading density. I believe the latest version is the more accurate.
It is stable out to at least 1000 m with a 15" (381 mm) twist .
Hopefully I will have access to a 1500 m range this year for further testing. The group sizes were not measured at 1000 m but all shots hit a 46 cm falling target in difficult wind conditions. These bullets are amazingly accurate.
LM: As is the Shooter. Congratulations to tame that short hefty Beast so
well! Not many perform like that with a .50" BMG! If You would use a Silencer,
Moderator, for a little less Pain an greater Ease, I am sure You would (even
better with an with a longer Barrel) tighten Your Groups even closer. Let me
know, whether You would like one for Your old, or new Barrel.
Regards, Carsten Østergaard, Denmark, Freitag, 6. Februar 2009 22:39
Mehr Bilder von der Longshot.pl | Dienstag, den 27. April 2010
Bericht von der Longshot 2010 | Montag, den 26. April 2010
Some Longshot results | Sonntag, den 25. April 2010
thank You for Your good Planning and well done Organisation during the Longshot 2010. Me and my Friends will surely return next Year. We hope we then will be able to shoot heavy Magnum above 11,4 mm then, like .50 BMG. Pleas pass this to th 17th mech. Brigade too and say Thank You for all the good Work, as I have no Contact there! Maybe one Day we can invite You for such an Event to http://psa-lausitz.de/
Sincerely, Lutz Möller, Mittwoch, 28. April 2010 08:29
Thank you very much for your letter. We really appreciate all the expressed opinions, especially the positive ones. We are working on the possibility of opening 'heavy Magnum' class next year. It mainly depends on the opinions of LONGSHOT 2010 participants. Of course, you and your friends are very kindly invited to come and take part in the fourth edition of the competition next year.
Yours faithfully, OSS Delta, Zbigniew Swierczek
B., Manousakis, Klotzki
2010: Da will man hoch
Hallo Herr Möller,
wir haben uns kürzlich auf dem LongShot in Polen getroffen (Ich war der kleine
dicke mit www.benchrest.pl Aufdruck auf
dem schwarzem T-Shirt.). Ich wollte Sie noch ein paar (über 600) LongShot Bilder
zeigen - Die sind in drei Galerien
auf der www.benchrest.pl Seite zu finden.
Grüß aus Münster, Piotr Michalowski, Mittwoch, 28. April 2010 11:28
Sehr geehrter Herr Möller,
die Punktestaffelung in der Spitze der Magnum Klasse war ja knapp. In der
Gesamtpunktzahl hatte ich gerade mal einen Punkt hinter dem 3. und 2 Punkte
hinter dem 2. Platz. Selbst der 1. hatte gerade mal 4 Punkte mehr. Das nächste
mal muß das besser ausgehen. Bitte verlinken Sie meinen Netzplatz
PSA-Lausitz.com auf der Ihren. Ich habe das selbige mit der Ihrigen schon
Waidmannsheil, G. Brunk, Samstag, 1. Mai 2010 20:14
I shoot your 800 gr 50 BMG bullets in Switzerland with the Swiss FCSA. They are working very well around 800 m/s.
LM: Thank You, but why so slow?
We went to RUAG Amotech to make some chrono measures from 0 till 300 m. Just willing to share with you the outcome. I did not yet try the 50-Olivier, Olivier will bring me some to try next time we meet. It looks like from the measures done that the BC of your 800 gr is more in between .8 and .9 rather that above 1. Based on the measures BC calculation is .835 whereas quickload catalog from your bullet data is :
C1=1.259@V>800 m/s; C2=1.080@V>400 m/s; C3=0.967@V>340 m/s; C4=1.274@V>300 m/s; C5=1.291@V>0 m/s;
Did other shooters report the same difference ?
LM: I have no other Chrono Data.
We measured also the Hornady A-max 750gr and there the BC is 1.01 instead of 1.05 as advertised by Hornady. Here below a copy of the measures we made.
Other question. - would it be possible to make a Lutz Möller KJG in 50 BMG, using the 800 gr as basis and replacing the point by a plastic part?
LM: a plastic Tip would be technical possible, but why?
This would make the bullet a bit lighter. What would be the weight and BC? These bullets would also be potentially usable for hunting in a .510 bullet diameter rifle (for instance 50 alaskan or 510 whisper) but would a KJG in 50 bmg expand in an animal at 200 m/s ? Or other solution would be to make a hollow point like the the one you are making for the 338. If this is possible, I guarantee you I will order 100 to try and will pay you upfront if necessary! (and discussion will not stop after this mail and your answer.)
Thx. Best Regards Xavier, Montag, 26. Juli 2010 12:02
my Bullet to expand @ 200 m/s in Meat is for the .300" Whisper, not the .50" BMG. If I needed to create a subsonic fifty, the Design would follow that Principle. Also the Twist angle would be 7°. For a 13 mm Bullet those 7° would translate to 332 mm Twist length, or less. LW offers 250 mm.
I cannot follow Your BC-Calculation for the A-Max. Which G-Curve did You use? A Side Question is, how is Your Experience with Accuracy, when You compare mine to Hornady`s. How are the Groups?
siehe Nipter 2011
Alles gute zu Eurem Erfolg in Miedzyrzecz, Meseritz!
Die 7 mm MJG sind eingetroffen, sehen super aus, heute werden sie gestopft!
Fabian, Montag, 2. Mai 2011 10:10
.50 Twist 15" - MSG Mass (ref)=51.839 g, Diameter (ref)=12.950 mm R(m) Mach CD BC(G1) BC(G7) BC(G8) 50 2.170 0.3067 0.8207 0.4125 0.4460 100 2.118 0.3133 0.8123 0.4083 0.4443 150 2.067 0.3193 0.8055 0.4048 0.4433 200 2.016 0.3252 0.7992 0.4016 0.4426 250 1.965 0.3303 0.7960 0.4000 0.4434 300 1.915 0.3349 0.7941 0.3990 0.4447 350 1.865 0.3402 0.7908 0.3973 0.4452 400 1.816 0.3457 0.7869 0.3954 0.4453 450 1.767 0.3511 0.7828 0.3947 0.4460 500 1.719 0.3565 0.7787 0.3947 0.4470 550 1.672 0.3617 0.7751 0.3948 0.4481 600 1.625 0.3667 0.7718 0.3950 0.4493 650 1.579 0.3719 0.7674 0.3954 0.4503 700 1.534 0.3773 0.7616 0.3961 0.4512 750 1.489 0.3827 0.7554 0.3969 0.4520 800 1.445 0.3883 0.7477 0.3982 0.4525 850 1.402 0.3937 0.7402 0.3994 0.4530 900 1.360 0.3986 0.7294 0.4015 0.4545 950 1.318 0.4034 0.7189 0.4036 0.4559 1000 1.277 0.4084 0.7046 0.4053 0.4567 1050 1.237 0.4133 0.6875 0.4068 0.4572 1100 1.198 0.4181 0.6707 0.4084 0.4578 1150 1.159 0.4207 0.6461 0.4111 0.4602 1200 1.122 0.4232 0.6224 0.4136 0.4625 1250 1.085 0.4237 0.5966 0.4170 0.4649 1300 1.051 0.4177 0.5721 0.4252 0.4715 1350 1.017 0.4099 0.5392 0.4166 0.4520 1400 0.987 0.3482 0.5840 0.4239 0.4660 1450 0.965 0.2502 0.7556 0.4531 0.5312 1500 0.948 0.2249 0.7913 0.3952 0.4980 1550 0.932 0.1955 0.8654 0.4144 0.5416 1600 0.919 0.1804 0.8956 0.4113 0.5575 1650 0.907 0.1788 0.8626 0.3785 0.5340 1700 0.894 0.1774 0.8356 0.3588 0.5228 1750 0.882 0.1761 0.8157 0.3549 0.5263 1800 0.871 0.1742 0.7987 0.3522 0.5317 1850 0.859 0.1714 0.7865 0.3515 0.5401 1900 0.848 0.1688 0.7738 0.3507 0.5483 1950 0.838 0.1668 0.7585 0.3487 0.5546 2000 0.827 0.1648 0.7433 0.3467 0.5609 2050 0.817 0.1650 0.7188 0.3403 0.5600 2100 0.807 0.1658 0.6921 0.3329 0.5571 2150 0.797 0.1663 0.6710 0.3275 0.5552 2200 0.787 0.1663 0.6612 0.3265 0.5553 2250 0.777 0.1663 0.6515 0.3255 0.5553 2300 0.768 0.1662 0.6419 0.3245 0.5554 2350 0.758 0.1662 0.6325 0.3236 0.5555 2400 0.749 0.1661 0.6235 0.3227 0.5557 2450 0.740 0.1656 0.6162 0.3228 0.5574 2500 0.731 0.1651 0.6090 0.3228 0.5591 2550 0.722 0.1646 0.6019 0.3228 0.5608 2600 0.713 0.1642 0.5949 0.3228 0.5625 2650 0.705 0.1637 0.5880 0.3229 0.5641 2700 0.697 0.1628 0.5849 0.3241 0.5673 2750 0.689 0.1612 0.5875 0.3270 0.5727 2800 0.681 0.1597 0.5900 0.3298 0.5782 2850 0.673 0.1586 0.5911 0.3319 0.5821 2900 0.666 0.1586 0.5882 0.3317 0.5821 2950 0.658 0.1586 0.5853 0.3315 0.5821 3000 0.651 0.1586 0.5825 0.3313 0.5821
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